In this podcast, the Font Awesome team discuss the success of their 2017 Kickstarter for Font Awesome version 5. This was the most funded and most backed tech Kickstarter of all time. The team reflects on what contributed to the project's success, including the video, and the decision to add a paid, Pro version to Font Awesome. The team also discusses how they were invited to Y Combinator, a Silicon Valley tech accelerator, after making the decision to give Font Awesome a go as a viable business.
To get their paid version of Font Awesome off the ground, Dave and the team decided to launch a crowdfunding campaign. They learned from the failure of their previous campaign for Font Awesome Black Tie. For the version 5 video, they'd need to hire professionals to create an engaging video to tell their story. After some research, they decided to work with Knox Avenue, who did a fantastic job.
Reflecting on the Success of Font Awesome's 2017 Kickstarter
Was Y Combinator Worth It?
Lessons Learned from the Font Awesome Crowdfunding Campaign
The Journey to Finding a Professional Video Production Company
The Risky Decision to Create the Font Awesome Kickstarter Video
The 12-Hour Filming Session for Kickstarter Video
The Font Awesome 5 Kickstarter: A Story of Success
We have no idea how this is going to hit. But we think this is hysterical. We thought it was funny, so we launched the video. We did a few things right with it. We did a lot of things right. And we still got an article out there somewhere about all of the we think are good ways to run a Kickstarter. And it's a few years old, but most of it's going to be evergreen with that. And we set a goal for ourselves for $30,000.
If Brian hasn't shared his nerd about baking, that would yeah, we should do that. The parallel we come up with [for the video] is a bakery. Because a bakery is we think of Font Awesome as this intersection of art and technology. We think of it as how do we make these Awesome assets. You get your icons. How do you make these real? How do you get these where they need to be in the way people want to use them so that everything can be better?
As a company, we like humor. This is actually a core piece of who the company has become. Is that we value this so much, and so we're like, okay, so humor seems a clear way that we can try to make this more interesting. But also, what if we have nothing overtly digital in this? What if we tell this in the real world? What if we tell the story of Font Awesome 5, what we want to build? What if we tell this story in the real world? And so what's the biggest parallel, right?
Stay up to date on all the Font Awesomeness!
00:00 Matt: Welcome to Podcast Awesome, where we chat about icons, design, tech, business, and nerdery
00:15 Matt: with members of the Font Awesome team.
00:29 Matt: I'm your host Matt Johnson, and in this podcast, we catch up with founders Dave Gandy, Travis
00:34 Matt: Chase, as well as Rob Madole, Font Awesome's principal software engineer, to talk about
00:40 Matt: what they learned launching the Font Awesome Kickstarter in 2017.
00:48 Matt: After hitting our 10-year milestone as a company reflecting on the release of Font Awesome
00:52 Matt: 6, we realized we'd never really said much about our original Kickstarter for Font Awesome
00:56 Matt: version 5 back in 2017, which was a huge milestone for us.
01:03 Matt: When all is said and done, the Font Awesome Kickstarter is the most funded and most backed
01:08 Matt: tech Kickstarter of all time, and a big part of its success was due to the video.
01:13 Matt: Since then, folks have asked us what we thought contributed to the project's success.
01:18 Matt: In this podcast, we've summarized some of the things we think worked, and a few that
01:23 Matt: didn't.
01:26 Matt: This is Dave Gandy.
01:28 Dave: But it just started getting just more and more and more popular, all organically, without,
01:32 Dave: you know, we've never paid to drive traffic to Font Awesome.
01:36 Dave: Everything has always been organic, you know, both as an open source, you know, fully open
01:40SPEAKER_05: source project, then we transitioned to, you know, being a company.
01:44 Matt: In 2017, Font Awesome founders Dave Gandy and Travis Chase tried an experiment.
01:50 Matt: Up until that point, Font Awesome was open source and free.
01:55 Matt: Once they made the decision to give Font Awesome a go in a paid version, they were
01:59 Matt: invited to Y Combinator, a Silicon Valley tech startup accelerator that's been around
02:04 Matt: since 2005.
02:07 Matt: Maybe you've heard of the little companies Airbnb, Dropbox, and DoorDash?
02:11 Dave: Yeah, they all got their start with Y Combinator.
02:14 Dave: The short answer is that everybody always asks is, you know, was Y Combinator worth
02:17 Dave: it?
02:18 Dave: My answer is yes, and it was worth it within the first 30 minutes of getting there.
02:23 Travis:: When we talk about Y Combinator, you know, they, their slogan is like, build something
02:27 Travis:: people want.
02:28 Travis:: And so we were working on Fort and we were trying different things and trying to make
02:32SPEAKER_05: that the tool we thought could really help a lot of people.
02:38 Matt: When Travis mentions Fort here, that's shorthand for Fort Awesome, an icon services package
02:44 Matt: the team was spending a lot of time trying to get off the ground.
02:48 Matt: Here's Rob Madole.
02:49 Rob: Yeah, we were so far down in the weeds, kind of looking at a completely different area.
02:55 Rob: Fort Awesome was, and you hear Dave and Travis talk about this pretty often, it was a bit
03:00 Rob: ahead of its time.
03:01 Rob: We were doing things with icons that people just really weren't, they weren't asking for
03:08 Rob: it yet.
03:10 Rob: So yeah, it was definitely one of those things where you're so far in the weeds that you
03:17 Rob: can't see what's above it.
03:19 Rob: And if we would have just thought about it, we'd have been like, oh, well, let's just
03:23SPEAKER_05: make more icons.
03:24 Matt: Though the team was getting traction, it wasn't quite enough to keep them going as a company.
03:30 Matt: So they did what only sensible people do.
03:33 Matt: They panicked.
03:34SPEAKER_05: It is my professional opinion that now is the time to panic.
03:43 Matt: Just kidding.
03:44 Matt: They didn't panic.
03:45 Travis:: They were just telling their customers what they wanted.
03:48 Travis:: And we're getting some traction, but not necessarily enough traction to support all four.
03:52 Travis:: We're just like, okay, well, how can we change this?
03:54 Travis:: And so basically, we went and asked our users, what do you want?
04:02 Travis:: What do you want?
04:03 Matt: What an idea, Travis.
04:04 Dave: Yeah, so we posted a survey on fontawesome.com.
04:10 Dave: It was active for three, maybe four days.
04:13 Dave: We did U.S. early in our understanding how to do good surveys.
04:16 Dave: And the survey ended up taking on average 45 minutes for people who completed it.
04:20 Matt: Oh, dang.
04:21 Matt: So they're committed.
04:22 Dave: And in about four or five days, we had 7,500 responses.
04:28SPEAKER_05: So we had lots of people who took the time to do that for us.
04:31 Matt: Make something people want is one of Y Combinator's mantras, and for good reason.
04:36 Matt: You won't get anywhere if you don't have something that folks need or want to use.
04:40 Dave: And there's no way to know for sure what people want unless you actually talk to them.
04:46 Dave: We find out, Travis, what do they want?
04:48 Dave: What did everybody want?
04:49 Travis: Just want more Font Awesome.
04:50 Rob: You would think we would realize that that's something people would want more of because
04:56 Rob: Font Awesome 4, I think it had around 650 or so icons at the time.
05:01 Dave: And we had tons of icon requests in our repository, our GitHub repository, where the open source
05:09 Rob: code was.
05:11 Rob: And I think it's something that you just kind of get blind to.
05:14 Rob: You just think about it.
05:16 Rob: But yeah, we heard back during that survey, people were just like, I just kind of want
05:19 Rob: that.
05:20 Rob: And it was a lot of times it was just one or two icons that they wanted.
05:23 Rob: It wasn't like they needed a whole set or anything.
05:25 Rob: So it became really apparent quickly that, well, if we just make more icons, we'll probably
05:31SPEAKER_05: make people happy.
05:32 Matt: So armed with what they learned at Y Combinator and fresh feedback from customers, they decided
05:37 Matt: to launch a crowdfunding campaign to get a paid version of Font Awesome off the ground.
05:43 Matt: That meant in part, they'd have to tell the story about what Font Awesome is and what it
05:49 Matt: does.
05:50 Matt: But Font Awesome has been down the crowdfunding video path before.
05:54 Matt: The big takeaway?
05:56 Matt: Hire professionals.
05:57 Dave: We also recognize we had done it before.
05:59 Dave: If you go and look at it, I will be humbled for every person that ever watches that.
06:04 Dave: The original Kickstarter video we did, we'd actually already done one.
06:07 Dave: For a project called Font Awesome Black Tie.
06:12SPEAKER_01: Black Tie will be an all new commercial icon font designed completely from scratch, building
06:17SPEAKER_01: on all of the great things from the original Font Awesome.
06:20 Dave: So we learned lessons.
06:22 Dave: Failure.
06:23 Dave: Total failure there, right?
06:24 Dave: But we learned the lesson.
06:25 Dave: Okay.
06:26 Rob: Hey, don't put Dave in the videos.
06:29 Rob: Yeah.
06:30 Rob: Well, Dave likes to talk about that.
06:33 Rob: Black Tie Kickstarter.
06:36 Rob: It got funded.
06:37 Rob: And so I think for starters, you have to say, look, it was actually successful.
06:43 Rob: What bothers him is he was on camera.
06:46 Rob: He doesn't think that it worked very well, but he got the message across.
06:50 Rob: I think it's a lot better than what he likes to admit.
06:53 Dave: Right.
06:54 Dave: That's the first one.
06:56 Dave: And B, hire someone who knows that as their wheelhouse.
06:59 Dave: Who really, really knows how to do that.
07:02SPEAKER_05: And then all of that, but like know what this thing is going to be.
07:05 Matt: So they knew they couldn't tell the Font Awesome story without a great video.
07:09 Matt: So they did some research into how a great Kickstarter video should cost.
07:13 Matt: I.E. they Googled how much does a Kickstarter video cost.
07:17 Matt: And to work with a fantastic production company and get the quality they wanted would run
07:22 Matt: somewhere around 15,000.
07:25 Matt: This sounded like a lot to spend on a video, but they were pretty sure they'd be able
07:29 Matt: to make back their investment.
07:31 Matt: After talking with other Y Combinator startups, they found VideoPixie.
07:35 Matt: Basically, VideoPixie has you describe your project and 20 to 30 professional video production
07:40 Matt: companies will bid for your business.
07:42 Matt: It works really well and you get some excellent options really quick.
07:46SPEAKER_01: And the VideoPixie guy had an idea.
07:48SPEAKER_01: It's going to be awesome.
07:55 Dave: He was like, now this is a little bit past the budget you set for this, but what about
07:59 Dave: these guys?
08:00 Dave: And so, you know, we, we, we chat up with them, got to know them and we knew the trick
08:04 Dave: to look for.
08:05 Dave: We know we knew that when it comes to craft, that the people who are purely talking about
08:10 Dave: the hardware and the math and the science behind things, that they might be able to
08:14 Dave: be technically, technically proficient.
08:15 Dave: Right.
08:16 Matt: But if you're doing a video, it's story.
08:19 Matt: The idea was to get Font Awesome connected with a video company called Knox Avenue.
08:24 Matt: Even though working with Knox was outside of their budget, they believed in Knox's
08:28 Matt: vision and thought it was worth the risk.
08:30 Matt: Talking, you know, we're talking a good chunk of the money that we've got left at this
08:33 Dave: point, right?
08:34 Dave: Because that raise got us an extra 18 months of, of runway.
08:37 Dave: And it's been a year since then at this point.
08:40 Dave: Right.
08:41 Dave: So we don't have many quarterly experiments left to even be able to run.
08:44 Dave: So this is, but we also knew, right?
08:46 Dave: Like if it doesn't work anyway, it's not going to matter.
08:47 Mat: Let's give it a good shot.
08:48 Dave: Give it a good shot.
08:49 Rob: Dave, he was the one that came up with the idea for the Kickstarter and the idea for
08:54 Rob: doing the video.
08:55 Rob: And at the time I thought he was, I thought he was crazy because it was so expensive and,
09:00 Rob: you know, we didn't have an infinite bank account.
09:03 Matt: Right.
09:04 Rob: I was like, Oh man, that's such a huge risk.
09:05 Rob: I really didn't think he was nuts.
09:06SPEAKER_05: I thought, well, yeah, it was sort of like, if we do this video, somebody's not getting
09:10SPEAKER_05: paid this month.
09:11 Rob: Yeah.
09:12 Rob: Yeah.
09:13 Rob: It wasn't quite down to that point, but it was definitely going to shorten our runway
09:16 Rob: by, you know, however many days or months and just, just a huge risk.
09:24 Rob: Something that I probably, you know, I'm, I'm risk more, more risk averse.
09:28 Rob: I wouldn't have probably done it if it had been up to me.
09:30 Rob: So it's kind of the genius of day that he could see far enough ahead and was willing
09:34 Rob: to take the risk.
09:36 Matt: Yeah.
09:37 Rob: But yeah, it was, I was, I was kind of there for the, from the very beginning on that,
09:41 Rob: on the Kickstarter thing and went through it with everybody together.
09:45SPEAKER_05: It was quite a ride.
09:46 Matt: Dave and Travis wanted something folks would share with their friends and Knox Avenue seemed
09:51 Matt: like a great fit.
09:52 Matt: Incidentally, after they launched, they were told that comedy is very risky for a Kickstarter.
09:58 Rob: So it was probably a good thing that they didn't know that ahead of time.
10:01 Matt: Yeah.
10:02 Rob: I wonder if Dave would have heard that from somebody before we did the video, if that
10:07 Rob: would have kind of changed everything.
10:09 Matt: Right.
10:10 Rob: You talk about like, you know, butterfly wings that ended up changing the future.
10:14 Rob: Yeah.
10:15 Rob: That one thing, if he would have heard it at the wrong time, may have completely changed
10:19 Rob: the trajectory.
10:20 Rob: We may not even be here today.
10:21 Matt: Yeah.
10:22SPEAKER_05: That was the case.
10:24 Matt: It's a good thing Dave didn't hear the recommendation to avoid humor and tech Kickstarters because
10:29 Matt: as it turned out, humor was an important factor to building an authentic brand identity for
10:34 Matt: Font Awesome.
10:36 Dave: As a company, like we like humor, right?
10:38 Dave: This is actually a core piece of who the company has become, right?
10:41 Dave: Is that we value this so much.
10:44 Dave: And so we're like, okay, so humor seems a clear way that we can, we can try to try to
10:47 Dave: make this more interesting, but also what if we have nothing overtly digital in us?
10:53 Dave: What if we tell this in the real world?
10:55 Dave: What if we tell the story of, you know, Font Awesome 5, what we want to build?
10:59 Dave: What if we tell this story in the real world?
11:00 Dave: And so what's the biggest parallel, right?
11:02 Dave: And so right away you're like, oh, let's do, what about a lab, right?
11:05 Dave: A science lab, right?
11:06 Dave: Because you've got all the tweaking, it's very visual.
11:09 Dave: You've got the white coats and you've got the, you know, the Erlenmeyer flask and you've
11:12 Dave: got the beakers and you've got all this little fungoli.
11:14 Dave: There's just, you can fill them with colors and you can do some fun stuff there.
11:17 Dave: But ultimately, and that's a great idea, but ultimately we're like, no, no, no, no, it's
11:21 Dave: too cold.
11:22 Dave_05: It's too sterile.
11:24 Matt: And this is when Brian Talbot came up with the idea explaining Font Awesome in the context
11:27 Matt: of a bakery.
11:29 Matt: So as an aside, let it be known that Mr. Talbot bakes the most amazing chocolate chip cookies
11:35 Matt: you have ever tasted.
11:37 Dave: Brian is, is one of the best bakers I will probably ever know if you ever have a chance
11:41 Dave: to have one of his chocolate chip cookies.
11:44 Dave: Like I'll leave it there.
11:46SPEAKER_05: It's heavenly, heavenly.
11:48SPEAKER_05: So good.
11:49SPEAKER_05: Every, every one of those cookies is worth it.
11:53SPEAKER_05: 24 hour process, if not longer.
11:55 Matt: Yeah, the time, like the dough has to cure for the chocolate.
11:58SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
11:59 Dave: A little bit of salt on the top.
12:00 Dave: Like it's a craft.
12:02 Dave: If we haven't, if Brian hasn't shared his nerd about baking, that would be it.
12:08 Dave: We should do that.
12:09 Dave: The parallel we come up with is a bakery, right?
12:12 Dave: Because a bakery is, you know, we think of Font Awesome as this intersection of art and
12:16 Dave: technology, right?
12:17 Dave: We think of it as how do we make these awesome assets, right?
12:21 Dave: You get your icons.
12:22 Dave: How do you make these real?
12:23 Dave: How do you get these where they need to be in the way people want to use them so that
12:27 Dave: you know, everything can be better what you're trying to do.
12:29 Dave: And baking is so similar, right?
12:30 Dave: There's so much about bake baking that is so visual.
12:33 Dave: And then not only that, but like the science of how you do it, all the hard work that goes
12:36 Dave: into the craft and the science and all the pieces that underneath it, it was just, it
12:41SPEAKER_05: was the right tone of the right field.
12:43 Matt: The filming process was super fun and super quick.
12:46 Matt: They found this amazing little bakery in Burbank called Half Baked and was absolutely perfect
12:51SPEAKER_04: for what they wanted.
12:53SPEAKER_04: It was just Dave and I remember him.
12:55SPEAKER_04: It was very furious.
12:57SPEAKER_04: He would be sending us notes and things and emails at like two thirty eight a.m.
13:02SPEAKER_04: in the morning because they were doing the shoot over because it was an actual bakery.
13:06SPEAKER_04: They didn't want to interrupt a business for the actual for the real thing.
13:10SPEAKER_04: Right. They did it all through the night.
13:12SPEAKER_04: And it was just it was crazy.
13:14SPEAKER_04: The. You could tell from his emails and responses and pictures he was sending
13:19SPEAKER_04: Travis and Brian and I that.
13:24SPEAKER_04: Something special was happening.
13:26SPEAKER_04: That's what this it was.
13:27SPEAKER_05: You could really tell that there was some some good going on.
13:30 Matt: They spent 12 hours on site filming at night from 6 p.m.
13:34 Matt: to 6 a.m. and they had a blast.
13:37 Matt: Then Knox worked their magic and edited the whole thing together.
13:41 Matt: But the big question was, would the video translate to the audience?
13:46 Dave: And so we had so much fun writing that and shooting it.
13:50 Dave: We've got it all ready to go. We've got the Kickstarter.
13:52 Dave: You know, it's already ready to flip the button and we don't know what's going to happen.
13:57 Dave: Right. We have no idea what's going to happen.
13:58 Travis: Not a clue.
13:59 Dave: And I'll say this. So so Travis, I mean, you tell me what you said.
14:03 Dave: So Travis had never seen a full cut of the video by the time we had color sound
14:07 Dave: effects and all the stuff done and really close to final.
14:10 Dave: And Travis watched it.
14:11 Dave: And Travis, what was your comment?
14:12 Travis:: Yeah, after laughing throughout, I kind of stopped and I paused.
14:18 Travis:: I said, you know, this may be the best thing we ever do in this company.
14:22SPEAKER_05: Yeah. Was this video.
14:24 Matt: Do you remember seeing it for the first time?
14:28 Rob: I do. I was shocked at how much personality and how professional it was.
14:35 Rob: Because when you read the script and we all kind of worked on the script
14:39 Rob: a little bit, the four of us, but Dave and Dave and Brian, I think primarily.
14:46 Rob: They went back and forth and you read the script and it sounds OK.
14:51 Rob: Right. But everything is really dry on the page.
14:53 Rob: And until you see it in action, you just really don't have any idea.
14:56 Rob: Yeah. And they had and they ad libbed and changed some stuff as they went,
15:00 Rob: which was kind of part of that frenetic energy that he was so excited about.
15:05 Rob: And just to see it come together, I was.
15:07 Rob: I kind of agree with Travis in one of the comments
15:11 Rob: he said was this is probably the best thing we've ever made.
15:14 Rob: Yeah. And yeah, it was it was seriously good.
15:17 Rob: And it was at that kind of moment that.
15:20 Rob: I guess I let hope come in that, OK, this this actually could really
15:24 Rob: this could really be awesome. I'm excited for people to see this.
15:28 Dave: And so you're looking at looking ahead, right?
15:30 Dave: We have no idea this is going to hit. Right.
15:32 Dave: But we we think this is hysterical, right?
15:33 Dave: This is like we thought it was funny.
15:36 Dave: We thought it was funny. So we launched the video.
15:39 Dave: We did a few things right with it.
15:40 Dave: We did a lot of things right.
15:41 Dave: And we still got an article out there somewhere about all of the
15:43 Dave: we think are good ways to run a Kickstarter.
15:45 Dave: And it's a few years old, but most of it's going to be evergreen with that.
15:48 Dave: And we set a goal for ourselves for thirty thousand dollars.
15:52 Dave: Right. And we knew that was low.
15:54 Dave: But we also knew that if at the end of it, we still had a product we could sell.
15:57 Dave: Right. Even if the Kickstarter really only does 30 grand.
15:59 Dave: OK, we're going to go ahead with it. Right.
16:01 Dave: That was our real. That was our really go or no go number. Right.
16:04 Dave: If it didn't hit that even.
16:05 Dave: OK, we probably won't.
16:06 Dave: We may not even bother to try to commercialize this at all.
16:08SPEAKER_05: We'll just keep it keep it going the way it was.
16:10 Matt: So what happened when they flipped the switch?
16:13SPEAKER_05: We blew through that thirty thousand dollars in.
16:16SPEAKER_05: An hour, maybe.
16:18 Matt: If you can believe it, the Font Awesome Five Kickstarter
16:21 Matt: raised one million seventy six thousand nine hundred and forty dollars
16:26 Matt: with thirty five thousand five hundred and fifty backers.
16:29 Matt: That made it the most funded and most backed software
16:32 Matt: Kickstarter of all time.
16:40 Matt: And if you haven't watched the video yet, really check it out.
16:43 Matt: It's genuinely funny.
16:46SPEAKER_05: Oh, come on, Terry.
16:48SPEAKER_05: You can always add more sprinkles.
16:50SPEAKER_05: It's a life lesson.
16:52SPEAKER_05: Oh, I didn't see there here at Font Awesome.
16:54SPEAKER_05: We're always cooking up something new.
16:57SPEAKER_05: For years, we've been the leading resource of website friendly icons
17:01 Matt: since then, Font Awesome has continued to grow and has been profitable every year.
17:06 Matt: But there are always a naysayers who think Font Awesome is sold out.
17:10 Matt: The thing is, though, as the company has grown,
17:12 Matt: they've had more opportunities to give more away and continue to support open source.
17:19 Dave: So because we are a company that is that we believe in open source
17:24 Dave: and because we now have a model to sustain it,
17:27 Dave: Font Awesome, the free version is now
17:31 Dave: two hundred and fifty percent larger than it was before we did the Kickstarter.
17:38 Matt: In February of 2022, Font Awesome launched version six.
17:43 Matt: As of this recording, Font Awesome six includes nine thousand plus more icons
17:48 Matt: in five styles, thirteen thousand plus pro icons and over two thousand free icons.
17:56 Matt: The company has continued to be profitable and has grown the staff
18:00 Matt: from just a few people to 17 since their humble beginnings.
18:05 Matt: I've heard Dave say lots of different ways that, you know,
18:09 Matt: icons aren't going to change the world and that Font Awesome
18:12 Matt: figured out a way to monetize something that's really fun.
18:15 Matt: So what would you attribute that success to?
18:18 Rob: So part of it is that the timing of everything was was really good
18:23 Rob: whenever Dave started Font Awesome, when he first kicked off that very first version one.
18:29 Rob: The ability to create your own site, especially if you were a developer.
18:34 Rob: There were tools like Bootstrap coming about, and we were starting to democratize
18:40 Rob: this creation of projects and sites and putting stuff on the Internet.
18:45 Rob: It wasn't just, you know, you have a site on AltaVista
18:50 Rob: that you hand code to the HTML with that looks like crap.
18:53 Rob: You could actually build something that was decently functional and
18:58 Rob: was using, you know, frameworks like Bootstrap.
19:01 Rob: So we started we entered into this area where all of a sudden
19:06 Rob: people are unable to build stuff and they need it and they need icons.
19:10 Rob: I need to be able to put this on my website, because as soon as you do that,
19:15 Rob: there's something about from a developer, especially there's something really fun about
19:20 Rob: starting and making something.
19:22 Rob: And then as soon as you put the icons on there, all of a sudden it looks
19:26 Rob: 10 times more professional than what you like.
19:29 Rob: For me, I'm not a designer, but I can put some icons and land on the page.
19:33 Rob: And it looks 10 times better than what I should be able to do.
19:37 Rob: Just because I've got these these things on there.
19:39 Rob: So the timing for all of that and the democratization of
19:44 Rob: site creation and developers being able to to use those.
19:48 Rob: I think it was just perfect timing.
19:50 Rob: And I think we just we just hit that perfect time.
19:52 Rob: And Dave's right. We're not going to change the world with icons.
19:56 Rob: Yeah. But man, can you think of a website today that doesn't have icons on it?
20:01 Rob: Right. I mean, everybody needs them.
20:03 Rob: So you can make that as easy as possible.
20:07 Rob: You probably got something cool and something that people will want.
20:12 Matt: Thanks for listening in to podcast. Awesome.
20:14 Matt: A special thank you to Dave, Travis and Rob for coming on the show.
20:19 Matt: If you like what you've heard, please give us a rating and review
20:22 Matt: and share this episode with your friends.
20:25 Matt: This episode was produced and edited by yours truly, Matt Johnson.
20:30 Matt: The font awesome theme song was composed by Ronnie Martin.
20:34 Matt: And audio mastering was done by Chris Ends at Lemon Productions.